Losing My Religion for Equality, by Jimmy Carter
After several years of trying to bring about change from the inside, Jimmy Carter has announced that he’s severing his ties with the Southern Baptist church over its treatment of women. As I post this news, I find myself thinking of what Greenpeace activitists had to say recently, in a totally different context: “America Honors Leaders, not Politicians.” Jimmy Carter used to be a politician. Since leaving office, he’s become a leader. At our present moment, we can only hope that leaving office is not a prequisite for becoming a leader.
Women and girls have been discriminated against for too long in a twisted interpretation of the word of God.
I HAVE been a practising Christian all my life and a deacon and Bible teacher for many years. My faith is a source of strength and comfort to me, as religious beliefs are to hundreds of millions of people around the world. So my decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when the convention’s leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be “subservient” to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service.
This view that women are somehow inferior to men is not restricted to one religion or belief. Women are prevented from playing a full and equal role in many faiths. Nor, tragically, does its influence stop at the walls of the church, mosque, synagogue or temple. This discrimination, unjustifiably attributed to a Higher Authority, has provided a reason or excuse for the deprivation of women’s equal rights across the world for centuries.
At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities.
The impact of these religious beliefs touches every aspect of our lives. They help explain why in many countries boys are educated before girls; why girls are told when and whom they must marry; and why many face enormous and unacceptable risks in pregnancy and childbirth because their basic health needs are not met.
In some Islamic nations, women are restricted in their movements, punished for permitting the exposure of an arm or ankle, deprived of education, prohibited from driving a car or competing with men for a job. If a woman is raped, she is often most severely punished as the guilty party in the crime.
The same discriminatory thinking lies behind the continuing gender gap in pay and why there are still so few women in office in the West. The root of this prejudice lies deep in our histories, but its impact is felt every day. It is not women and girls alone who suffer. It damages all of us. The evidence shows that investing in women and girls delivers major benefits for society. An educated woman has healthier children. She is more likely to send them to school. She earns more and invests what she earns in her family.
It is simply self-defeating for any community to discriminate against half its population. We need to challenge these self-serving and outdated attitudes and practices – as we are seeing in Iran where women are at the forefront of the battle for democracy and freedom.
I understand, however, why many political leaders can be reluctant about stepping into this minefield. Religion, and tradition, are powerful and sensitive areas to challenge. But my fellow Elders and I, who come from many faiths and backgrounds, no longer need to worry about winning votes or avoiding controversy – and we are deeply committed to challenging injustice wherever we see it.
The Elders are an independent group of eminent global leaders, brought together by former South African president Nelson Mandela, who offer their influence and experience to support peace building, help address major causes of human suffering and promote the shared interests of humanity. We have decided to draw particular attention to the responsibility of religious and traditional leaders in ensuring equality and human rights and have recently published a statement that declares: “The justification of discrimination against women and girls on grounds of religion or tradition, as if it were prescribed by a Higher Authority, is unacceptable.”
We are calling on all leaders to challenge and change the harmful teachings and practices, no matter how ingrained, which justify discrimination against women. We ask, in particular, that leaders of all religions have the courage to acknowledge and emphasise the positive messages of dignity and equality that all the world’s major faiths share.
The carefully selected verses found in the Holy Scriptures to justify the superiority of men owe more to time and place – and the determination of male leaders to hold onto their influence – than eternal truths. Similar biblical excerpts could be found to support the approval of slavery and the timid acquiescence to oppressive rulers.
I am also familiar with vivid descriptions in the same Scriptures in which women are revered as pre-eminent leaders. During the years of the early Christian church women served as deacons, priests, bishops, apostles, teachers and prophets. It wasn’t until the fourth century that dominant Christian leaders, all men, twisted and distorted Holy Scriptures to perpetuate their ascendant positions within the religious hierarchy.
The truth is that male religious leaders have had – and still have – an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter. Their continuing choice provides the foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world. This is in clear violation not just of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights but also the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, Moses and the prophets, Muhammad, and founders of other great religions – all of whom have called for proper and equitable treatment of all the children of God. It is time we had the courage to challenge these views.
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July 23rd, 2009 @ 7:32 am
Yay, Jimmy Carter!! Thank you for taking a stand for equality.
July 23rd, 2009 @ 8:42 am
Go, Jimmy! My continued thanks for all you contribute to society.
July 23rd, 2009 @ 12:01 pm
I certainly admire Carter for his comments. However, I am diappointed that he did not include homosexuals among those whom religions discriminate against. Consider that 1, Homosexuality occurs throughout throughout humanity and has been observed in hundreds of animal species. 2, It can be supressed for a time but not changed. 3, Considering how many of the great creative geniuses of our culture have been homosexual it cannot be seen as a sign of any kind of degeneracy. It therefore becomes clearer that these discriminations (against females and homosexuals) are more a product of the male ego than of God’s will since God, like it or not, created the world exactly as it is.
July 23rd, 2009 @ 2:06 pm
Atta boy Jimmy! Yay God!
July 23rd, 2009 @ 8:12 pm
Jimmy was already a revered person, in my opinion. Now he’s exalted!
We need many more like Jimmy. It’s probably too much to ask for the church, all churches and religions, to actually take notice. But we can hope.
GO JIMMY!
July 23rd, 2009 @ 8:28 pm
I wish Jimmy Carter felt the same way about Israelies as he says he does for women – both have been historically repressed.
July 23rd, 2009 @ 10:42 pm
I salute Jimmys courage to speak these words that are long overdue. It is time for all who understand to speak these truths in their every ordinary day, in every small way. The facts exposing the acts of exclusion engineered by political egos of priests and politicians need to be faced by the whole of humanity.
Thankyou Jimmy and the Elders for helping to change the collective unconscious of Earth to conscious reality that serves life.
July 24th, 2009 @ 7:19 am
Bravo Jimmy Carter…I’m more inclined to declare that any religious or other body dedicated to the denial of another’s human rights Constitutionally guaranteed in the United States should be illegal. If we can fight over such issues in other countries, we should certainly be willing to confront these American Taliban disguised as simply religious. They are no more than terrorists. We protect religious rights but we should not protect the criminal behavior of others.
Scott GAtes
July 24th, 2009 @ 10:06 am
Congratulations in stepping out in defense of equal treatment of women. The
time is long overdue that attention was given to this deplorable situation.
Let us hope that there is a positive response from those religions (especially
the Roman Catholic religion) who have a long history of discrimination against
women.
July 24th, 2009 @ 1:45 pm
Jimmy Carter , a voice for thr truth !It will take time to implement what is truly righteous but it will come to pass .God Bless all the jimmy Carters .
July 24th, 2009 @ 8:59 pm
This is terrific! And, if he’s leaving the Southern Baptists, could someone get word to him that he will find welcome at our parish, The Episcopal Church of St. Mary the VIrgin, San Francisco, and will appreciate that 3 of the 5 ordained clergy are women. Just a thought in case he’s looking for a Sunday School class to teach in; he’s welcome.
July 25th, 2009 @ 9:27 am
To Charlene Leslie:
I think Jimmy *does* feel the same way about the oppression of the Israelis (or in fact anybody) in history. He’s for justice no matter who the oppressed are. However, if you have read anything recently by Jimmy (and others), the Israelis are hypocritically and similarly oppressing the Palestinians. Do some research in places other than the mainstream American media.
July 25th, 2009 @ 10:41 am
I was elated and then some when I read this article by Jimmy Carter. I was born in 1932 and have been at the forefront of social change for women. I was at the forefront of women going into business. Last Dec. my book was published The Power To Change; The Shadow of Idealsim which reveals the psychological straight jacket women are stuffed into and how and why dysfunctional families are created.
I have come to the conclusion dysfuntional families are the root cause of war,disease and poverty. What an incredible gift of recognition Jimmy Carter has given women.
July 25th, 2009 @ 11:16 am
My gratitude is immeasurable. Thank you President Carter.
July 25th, 2009 @ 1:05 pm
Go Jimmy! My mother wasn’t allowed to vote until she was 30! in 1920. I was raised to be anything I wanted to be. Unfortunately that wasn’t true in the “real” world. More work to be done.
July 25th, 2009 @ 4:13 pm
Friends have long told me what a brilliant man Jimmy Carter is. I’ve also been impressed with his leadership shown through some of his humanitarian projects. Now I consider him a wise elder and admire his words. For those of us who believe that we are Soul having a human experience instead of humans having spiritual experiences, gender is not an issue other than for the opportunity it gives Soul to learn the most important lessons of life, how to love. It’s my core belief that God is Love — but tough love because God holds us accountable for all of our actions. God’s administrators ensure that those who discriminate on any grounds will have the opportunity to experience what it’s like to be on the other end. So, bravo, Jimmy Carter. I’m proud to be a fellow American of people like you.
July 26th, 2009 @ 2:29 pm
Dear President Carter, thank you for your bravery, your honesty, and your integrity, sir. You are truly a leader I can love and respect.
July 26th, 2009 @ 5:47 pm
I forwarded this article to a friend who responded asking for the source of this document. Can you please point me to it.
Thanks,
Marion
July 26th, 2009 @ 8:01 pm
Jimmy, my respect for you has just climbed exponentially! I appreciate the struggle
you had in leaving the church. This is a signal move for humankind,as you are truly a leader, and your actions already are rippling out.!
July 27th, 2009 @ 8:22 am
Marion,
Here’s the source: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/losing-my-religion-for-equality-20090714-dk0v.html?page=-1
You can also get to it by clicking on the “link” in our post: “severing his ties” unlined in red. Generally, whenever you see anything underlined in a different color from the text type, it’s a link.
July 28th, 2009 @ 10:19 am
Jesus was the first feminist, treating women with equal respect. God made woman last, the jewel in the crown of the creation. It was good, It was good, it was good, it was good it was good, suddenly when he created man, it was not good, and he created woman! Conratulations Jimmy! Christians do not all believe that stuff from the So Baptists. Simply a twist on the truth!
July 28th, 2009 @ 2:59 pm
Thank GOD for Jimmy Carter. What strength of character he has. This is true integrity.
July 30th, 2009 @ 1:27 pm
Dear Jimmy Carter, my fellow Georgian, it is such a joy to see you continue to grow so beautifully into that tree of truth and light that shelters us all.
July 30th, 2009 @ 2:05 pm
Dear President Carter,
Thank you for acting as a true Elder; one who teacher by the way he or she lives. It is people like you who give me faith in humans’ ability to evolve so that we begin to live in a world where everyone is respected and treated with honor.
July 30th, 2009 @ 2:39 pm
Carter has overlooked the fact that rejection of CHrist’s church is a rejection of Christ himself. Carter has joined a group founded on moralism and turned away from his place in the Kingdom based on faith in Christ and belief in His Gospel. Sadly, his rejection is of the first institution in history to acclaim women as worthy. Yes, scripture calls for women to be subject to their “own” husbands but, if someone has a problem with that, it is due to not understanding Biblical headship for the mans role.
July 31st, 2009 @ 6:40 pm
Jimmy Carter has been a champion of human rights and justice issues for long time. As a sitting president his hands were tied by the system of politics in America and the institution of the presidency. Former President Carter is Christ like and the Southern Baptist are Christians. Carter practices his faith by following the example and teachings of Jesus. The Southern Baptist seem to more like the 87% of Americans who claim to be Christian, but do not show any signs of really practicing the faith of the Palestinian Jew, Jesus. I applaud Mr. Carter for making a very difficult decision the leave the denomination that helped to shape his faith, but failed shift its stance on the place of woman in church. Their interpretation of the biblical text would in his estimation justify slavery as well as some other oppressive practices and I strongly agree. My prayers are with Mr. Carter and the work that he is involved with. Also, I pray for the leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention as well. My prayer is that God will invade their hearts and minds to the degree that they can elevate God over the institution that has historically been so oppressive in the name of God, who sets the captives free,
August 1st, 2009 @ 5:33 am
Jimmy Carter you were the first president that I voted for and it was because I sensed a leader then. You have never failed to stand up for what you believe even when the world was hounding you to change your mind. Thank you for being a shining example of what each of us can do by speaking up and standing up.
August 1st, 2009 @ 6:24 am
Jimmy Carter has always been one of my heroes. He is the ultimate example of leadership that will better our planet because he is selfless, just, compassionate and has vision. Most of all he has a solid spiritual foundation. He has tremendously contributed in making our world a better place. Thank you Carter for being an incredible role model. I’ll use this piece in all my gender courses.
You’re truly a prophet. May the Divine power sustain and protect you.
Love and Peace,
Oury
August 1st, 2009 @ 7:47 am
What a blessing to have the voice of someone like Jimmy Carter added to those of many who are awakening to the invitation in our crises today – to see that we are all created in God’s image, that we are one in that body and that together we can create heaven on earth.
August 1st, 2009 @ 10:17 am
I have nothing to add to these already excellent comments. Women can lead the way to correcting these ancient injustices. Please visit http://www.grandmothersspeak.com to see how this is happening.
August 2nd, 2009 @ 11:18 am
This is an eloquent excerpt. As Jimmy Carter stated, we are all God’s children and equal in God’s eyes. It’s Yin-Yang, male and female. In holistic health, our physical bodies are comprised of both male and female aspects, the left side and the right side. Due to power and control issues, biblical passages, as well as other passages from other wordly religious texts, have been greatly distorted. It’s up to all of us to stand up and voice justice for all. The Kingdom of Heaven is on Earth and is at hand. It’s all up to us how we decide its direction.
August 2nd, 2009 @ 3:35 pm
This article gave me the feeling of humanity leaping forward with a giant stride. It reminds me of how Spirit works within each one of us to bring us to an understanding that we truly are One with God. It reminds me of my personal leap forward years ago. I am reminded of how difficult it was to leave judgment behind me. I am grateful that one with the stature of Jimmy Carter is willing to speak his heart. I am so joyful that his speaking from his heart is so different from the daily rhetoric of so many. There is no condemnation on the balance of humanity. As they are ready, they too, will come to an understanding that love and fear cannot coexist. Love is the answer. Nothing else has substance. Thank you Jimmy C!
August 5th, 2009 @ 10:10 am
Of all the comments made regarding President Carter’s letter of leaving his church, I appreciate Robin Young’s, July 30th, 2009, position most because it gives those of us not involved in the dogma of this church to see exactly why President Carter took the action he did. I feel saddened by the righteously right and those who use religion to claim themselves as more important than someone else (man, woman, gay, other religion, whatever). If we wish to remain passionate for the principles we stand for, it is best we know the opposite position. Thank you, Mr Young for helping us get a little bit stronger in our desire to have all God’s children treated the same.
August 5th, 2009 @ 11:40 am
As a Carter delegate to the Democratic Convention, and former Legal VP of the National Organization for Women (NOW), I am so proud of President Carter! It is gratifiying to know that enlightment can arrive even in our senior years. Hats off to you, Mr. Carter.
August 7th, 2009 @ 7:40 pm
Dear President Carter, I’m taking this opportunity to express to you my gratitude. Also retired, I am very active in seeking civil rights for immigrants in the United States and especially immigrant women who experience rape daily in the work place. Your stand for women’s rights will give the work done by activists in the USA and worldwide a great, great boost. Thank you for following your heart to make the world a better place to live.
August 8th, 2009 @ 4:00 pm
I have read this and i notice that all of what i was thinking matched your believes thankyou a voice certainly counts!!
August 10th, 2009 @ 6:39 am
Keep the faith, lady! Had a fabulous time on Saturday. Thank you for it and especially for the Aramaic understrandings…Love, Karen
August 10th, 2009 @ 7:03 am
I do not know and so cannot suppport the organization publicizing Jummy Carter’s position on other matters, but I applaud him for his stance favoring Palestinians’ rights and the status of women in Christianity. Such courage is admirable–and he is consistently courageous, God bless him
Peace, Mary Elizabeth osb
August 10th, 2009 @ 7:58 am
Thank you Jimmy Carter for coming out with your stance against the oppression of women. I have the utmost respect for you and appreciate all you have done and try to do. I just wonder what took so long?
August 10th, 2009 @ 8:05 am
Thank you , You think out of the box. I wish more Catholic men had your kind of courage,
August 10th, 2009 @ 9:09 am
Thank you, Father-Mother God! As the daughter of a Lt. Commander in the Navy, the wife of a Submariner in the Navy and the cousin of an Annapolis Grad, also a Naval Officer and with my niece’s husband at Sea now, serving in the Navy, I am grateful for the continued wisdom, intelligence and Soul of this GREAT man, whose insight has been so eloquently expressed.
I rejoice in his revelation, as a granddaughter of a fine Baptist (not Southern Baptist) Lady, and know this is the wish and message Christ taught us all.
My compliments and good wishes to President Carter for taking this stand and clarifying his position.
Respectfully submitted,
Judith Spencer Merrill
August 10th, 2009 @ 3:34 pm
I believe Jimmy Carter has taken a very long overdue step. His mother, sister, wife and daughter lived their lives under the repression of religion…time to take off the mask of religion and deal with the real issues of real people in real time. That includes all people, no matter their orientation
August 10th, 2009 @ 4:43 pm
Jimmy, You are a man of courage, a man of integrity. I only wish you were Catholic and speaking out against the oppression of women in the Catholic Church. There is no priest shortage…only closed minds prohibiting the ordination of women and married men. Let us stand together for equality!!!!
August 10th, 2009 @ 8:29 pm
After reading the article and comments I go to bed with renewed hope. Thank you Jimmy Carter and all!
August 11th, 2009 @ 6:54 am
YES thank you for speaking and acting out your support in all your the books and time and the support you have given to the poor and to right the wrongs of the world. Mr. President you have used your gifts from God well. Blessings
August 11th, 2009 @ 7:33 am
Thank you and God Bless you “Former President/current Leader, Jimmy Carter”! I’ve always admired your sincerity and relentless courage in trying to bring about peace with justice. YOU WALK THE TALK! Your decision was difficult and COURAGEOUS! THANK YOU FOR TAKING A STAND FOR EQUALITY AND JUSTICE. Blessings and peace. Be assured of my prayers.
August 11th, 2009 @ 10:48 am
Thank You Mr Carter for making your stand and to the others involved in this statement. You are right on. It’s only the beginning of what has been needed to be said for many years. I have noticed the same in my faith & music ministry (Roman Catholic) and in working with ecumenical groups here in Florida. You are the first president that I voted for at 18- and you are still working for me at 54. I’m Proud of you and pray for your efforts.
August 15th, 2009 @ 6:01 am
Thank you Mr. Carter for bringing to light the injustice that has existed throughout history and will continue unless men and women thinking as you do stand up and force change. I can never understand why the churches and governments are so afraid of women in positions of power. In my Catholic Church, it would be wonderful to see a female deacon Baptize her grandchildren–not just a grandfather! Keep the movement going, Mr. Carter–the world needs a woman’s touch!
August 18th, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
Thank you, President Carter! I am curious why we have not seen this spark broader media interest.
August 18th, 2009 @ 2:59 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with former President Jimmy Carter –his courage in supporting the plight of women world-wide is laudable, to say the least. He IS a leader and it is the very beliefs that led to his leaving the Southern Baptist Convention that prevent many women from assuming priestly roles where their dynamism and belief are so needed. Thank you, Jimmy Carter and God bless you for speaking out so bravely!
August 21st, 2009 @ 12:23 pm
when I finished reading this incredible article from one of the wisest people on earth at this time – I cried. to think it is 2009 and women are not only second class citizens, but actively and often viciously descriminated against is just too, too sad. thank you Mr. Carter – from your mouth to God’s and other’s ears!!
love, Irene
August 21st, 2009 @ 3:30 pm
Deepest gratitude to Jimmy Carter. The world is crying for all enlightened souls to step forward and point to the light. This is what real leaders do.
The times, they are a changin’.
August 26th, 2009 @ 12:31 am
WOW! I am so very very proud of your Mr. Jimmy Carter for your caring and dignity in having the courage to step out of your conditioned beliefs and stay in your knowing heart of goodness. Thank you so very much for this conviction of yours and all the world leaders who are gathering in discussion of this very very important issue of honoring both men and women equally on our planet. Thank you from my heart to yours. You are so so good! I know you have the mass majority of support in your efforts. it is time NOW for peace and dignity. each one of us make a difference as we focus upon this whether we are known or unknown, we are all known by the one God, that which lives within our very breath!
August 26th, 2009 @ 11:52 am
Dear President Jimmy Carter,
Your noble and principled life and stance has been a joy to witness. I am immensely grateful to you and to your lovely and loving wife for the example you set as public figures and private citizens. God bless you.
August 27th, 2009 @ 3:18 am
I assume this is the same ‘peanut’ president. He is right. We bring up our kids (UK) equally and try to give everyone the same chances in life be they male, female or of a different ethnic background, sexuality whatsoever. It doesn’t always work, but we try. It is very different in the devoloping World. I know that the US and EU are doing what they can (I’ve worked on those projects) but it’s an uphill struggle.
August 31st, 2009 @ 2:25 pm
I hope this statement receives the attention and distribution it deserves: bravo.
August 31st, 2009 @ 6:28 pm
Thank you for expressing this truth and your noble action in leaving your church so that you lead your life with such brightness. You speaking this truth can help to heal the centuries of scars that have been worn by so many females. It is a vital step in the release of chained thinking by many religious leaders so that they can practice what they preach – love,kindness and honesty to all – including your fellow man – and woman!
August 31st, 2009 @ 9:50 pm
Thank you, Jimmy Carter, for attempting to educate the masses about the historic role of women in the early Christian church. Let us not forget that Mary Magdalene, who may have been the wife of Jesus, was one of the apostles and accepted as a great teacher by the people of the times. Women for generations have been burned at the stake or drowned as witches because they dared take a leading role in the affairs of God and state. Jean D’Arc is a leading example. Now that people finally are realizing the role that women can play in running the world, perhaps we all can enjoy some peace.
September 1st, 2009 @ 9:22 am
What took you so long to figure it out Jimmy? Ever talk to Gloria Steinem?
September 1st, 2009 @ 7:26 pm
Jimmy Carter,
A voice of reason and truth and an act of courage. Thank you.
Sharon Mandt
September 2nd, 2009 @ 3:39 am
I have to completely agree with Mr. Carter . I can site many instances in the Bible where before the modern day church, women held places or honor and authority not only in church church but in government. They were Prophets and Judges and held in high esteem and honor . Thank you Mr. Carter for losing religion and it’s trappings and finding faith and equity. The world needs more people with like minded views.
Sincerely;
Terry Mingus
September 9th, 2009 @ 12:50 pm
Re. Jimmy Carter’s piece: “Losing My Religion – For Equality”
President Carter:
Thank you, profoundly, for this powerful, courageous, eloquent statement.
With much regard,
Donna M. Maio
Warren, Michigan
September 10th, 2009 @ 6:06 am
Bravo Mr. Carter for your immense courage and integrity. Humanity thanks you for that gesture.
Gaetan Pilon, Quebec, Canada
September 13th, 2009 @ 9:57 am
President Carter has touched on the fundamental issue of time until there is gender equality not much will change in our world
September 18th, 2009 @ 11:57 am
Thanks Mr. President for a great article. I’m not glad your getting older, because that means you will one day have to stop the great work you do…But, I am glad your old enough to not give a damn about the correct way you must say something. Being direct is something you can’t do in DC and survive a re-election.
I hope to have room in my publication to print this one. Website above….
October 16th, 2009 @ 4:03 pm
Mr. Carter,
it is so wonderful to see someone standing up for women. Especially Muslim Women, they have suffered too long. Thank you for your leadership.
March 4th, 2010 @ 1:48 pm
I have long admired Jimmy Carter. He’s such a smart man, and a true follower of my Lord Jesus Christ. I love this article! I believe in what the Bible says. I have taught Bible study, read the Bible daily, and try my best to know God’s will more each day. I have questioned women’s role in my own (conservative, evangelical) church, in which women are not allowed to pastor. I’ve never found scripture to support that. So, thank you so much for speaking out, Mr. Carter. I respect your opinion a lot. Why man so often looks to doctrine for answers before searching the Bible itself is beyond me! In other words, why ask men when you can go straight to God?